jonathan dough

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Posts by jonathan dough

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  30

  How did they know if someone was Circumcised?

  by RubaDub in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so as not to hijack the current "paul" thread, i'll comment here.

  paul spoke about circumcision numerous times and even circumcised timothy.. not to make light of the topic, but i have always wondered, how did anyone know if someone else was circumcised???

  i have been a jw my entire life and will honestly tell you that i don't know which brothers are circumcised and which are not.. i mean, did guys back then watch each other at the urinals or peek in the windows when someone was getting dressed?

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  jonathan dough

  Show and tell.
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  24

  Resurrection date and parousia questions

  by jonathan dough in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  1) do the jws still believe that the first resurrection of the 144,000 began in 1918 or did they change that?.

  2) do they still believe that jesus is present, the parousia is upon us and that he 'returned' invisibly in 1914 or has that also changed?.

  http://www.144000.110mb.com/trinity/index-5.html#21.

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  jonathan dough

  Thanks, Bob. This then confirms my suspicion that they have completey backed off of the earlier 1918 theory. I wish they would make up their minds. At least issue inserted updates in their literature so as not to be so misleading to the unsuspecting public.

  http://144000.110mb.com/144000/index.html#I
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  24

  Resurrection date and parousia questions

  by jonathan dough in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  1) do the jws still believe that the first resurrection of the 144,000 began in 1918 or did they change that?.

  2) do they still believe that jesus is present, the parousia is upon us and that he 'returned' invisibly in 1914 or has that also changed?.

  http://www.144000.110mb.com/trinity/index-5.html#21.

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  jonathan dough

  Post is acting up
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  84

  question for theMadJW and other Wt apologists

  by isaacaustin in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  on what basis do you make the claim that the leadership of the jw's, aka governing body, is the organization god is and has been working through continuously since 1919?.

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  jonathan dough

  Please allow me to quote from a 1990 watchtower regarding the governing body in the first century:

  "While all anointed Christians collectively form God’s household, there is abundant evidence that Christ chose a small number of men out of the slave class to serve as a visible governing body. The early history of the congregation shows that the 12 apostles, including Matthias, were the foundation of the first-century governing body. Acts 1:20-26 provides us with an indication of this. In connection with a replacement for Judas Iscariot, reference is there made to “his office of oversight” and to “this ministry and apostleship.”"

  This is completely false. The JWs always distort early Christianity to justify their hold on the flock when history and scripture makes it very clear that there was NOT one governing body that resembles the contemporary Society. At a minimum there were two groups of identifiable Christians, Jews and gentiles. The Jewish Christians did not run the Gentile Christians with the same authority. Paul followed both rules, Jewish and Gentiles, depending on the circumstances. The Jewish Christians continued to ascribe to the Law (Paul said I AM a Pharisee) , and passed along very few "regulations" the gentiles were expected to adhere to. Note also that the Jewish Christians (the Pillars you base the GB on) passed away, and their misguided version of the "truth" did not carry the day due to a lack of understanding of the role the Law played and how the new faith was to unfold. To justify the Governing Body's hold based upon the role of the early Pillars is unfounded. And most certainly, Paul, as the head of the Gentile Christians, was nothing like today's governing body of corporate executives. He was not a "governing body" in the JWs' sense of the term.

  So the question is, when did the master arrive to inspect the slave's work?

  To do this, Witnesses point to the beginning of the parousia and then make some calculations when examining what was happening in the world and within the organization. This is where faith is required as I mentioned in the first line.

  You are hiding behind "faith" when you know the facts documented ad nauseum on this board prove your 1914 theory is dead wrong. They don't base it on faith but false facts.

  Returning to the topic at hand, it is logical to think the master, Jesus Christ, would come to inspect the work of the slave after his enthronement since up to that point he has only been sitting at the right hand of God waiting for this time.

  That is not logical at all. Even if you don't believe Christ was, and is, God, you are forgetting the fact that Christ said he would be with us throughout the age, that he is here in Spirit, because he is the Sprit, and therefore He knows perfectly well what has been going on here just as he knew what Paul was doing in his time. To think that He sat up on a throne not aware of what His servants have been up to on earth is flat-out ignorant. Besides, all of your arguments are moot because Christ was not enthroned in 1914. And that is not just opinion.

  http://144000.110mb.com/144000/i-7.html#VIII

  but the Witnesses believe that upon inspection, the master found only one group attempting to do what was right.

  Oh, give me a break. Christendom has been preaching repentance, end times, good works and has done more of what the Bible and Christ demands than the JWs will do in a thousand lifetimes. The complete opposite is true. The JWs are doing what is wrong, not what is right.

  JD II
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  24

  Resurrection date and parousia questions

  by jonathan dough in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  1) do the jws still believe that the first resurrection of the 144,000 began in 1918 or did they change that?.

  2) do they still believe that jesus is present, the parousia is upon us and that he 'returned' invisibly in 1914 or has that also changed?.

  http://www.144000.110mb.com/trinity/index-5.html#21.

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  jonathan dough

  Thank you, Bohm and Ynot, and everyone else. The purpose of my first question regarding the first resurrection is to see if they have changed their position again. My reading is that the "Jehovah’s Witnesses teach that the first resurrection, for the 144,000 only, began in 1918 and will conclude shortly (Revelation Climax, 103, 277)." This has been proven wrong, obviously, and I was just wondering if they modified it, which they might have, by claiming it "may" have happened," thereby protecting themselves after-the-fact. So I'm kind of looking for any kind of "may" language they are using to wriggle out of this one. I devoted a short section to 1918 here but want to keep it up-to-date: http://144000.110mb.com/144000/i-5.html#VI

  With respect to the second question, my reading of what you provided and what I have read means the parousia began in 1914 according to JW lore, and THAT is the so-called Second Coming of Christ, which is another theory they are attempting to distance themselves from; that Christ's parousia is TODAY. The reason for my question is Christ's warning at Matthew 24:26 (be careful of those who claim he is in the desert and in the inner chamber). If I didn't know better I'd say He was warning us about the JWs who claim Christ has already returned.

  http://144000.110mb.com/144000/i-2.html#IV
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  49

  My name was brought up last night in the elders meeting !!!

  by elder-schmelder in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i was just told by my dad that my name was brought up last night in the elders meeting.. my dad (is or was) an elder, and he told me that the elders are going to be giving me a call.

  they have heard rumors that i am an apostate !!.

  he said that the elders received a call from another hall that heard that i was an apostate and 1 local brother also turned me in.. does this mean that they have 2 witness to my sin and that they can df me without a jc?.

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  jonathan dough

  Does this mean that they have 2 witness to my sin and that they can DF me without a JC?

  I dont know if I want to be DFed. I have not been to a meeting in about 3 years. My Grandparents, and parents are all JW's. My brother is already df'd.

  Put your mind at rest. Read this: http://144000.110mb.com/index.html and if you have an open mind you will be totally convinced the JWs are wrong and that you could care less about being df'd because if you stayed in you would be living a lie to yourself and others.

  JD II
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  24

  Resurrection date and parousia questions

  by jonathan dough in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  1) do the jws still believe that the first resurrection of the 144,000 began in 1918 or did they change that?.

  2) do they still believe that jesus is present, the parousia is upon us and that he 'returned' invisibly in 1914 or has that also changed?.

  http://www.144000.110mb.com/trinity/index-5.html#21.

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  jonathan dough

  I beleive in 2007 they say that the ressurection "MAY" have started in 1918.

  Any way to pin down the exact quote?
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  24

  Resurrection date and parousia questions

  by jonathan dough in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  1) do the jws still believe that the first resurrection of the 144,000 began in 1918 or did they change that?.

  2) do they still believe that jesus is present, the parousia is upon us and that he 'returned' invisibly in 1914 or has that also changed?.

  http://www.144000.110mb.com/trinity/index-5.html#21.

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  jonathan dough

  JW CORRECTED - In the context of the first resurrection and the paraousia, the parousia is that period leading up to the actual second coming. So the "presence" is a very technical concept that is not to be confused when Christ literally becomes flesh again at the second coming.

  I'm sorry, Larsinger, but I don't think you have the slightest clue what you are talking about and you're just making this stuff up. Where in the WTBS literature does it support these theories? That is the original question.

  http://144000.110mb.com/index.html
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  24

  Resurrection date and parousia questions

  by jonathan dough in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  1) do the jws still believe that the first resurrection of the 144,000 began in 1918 or did they change that?.

  2) do they still believe that jesus is present, the parousia is upon us and that he 'returned' invisibly in 1914 or has that also changed?.

  http://www.144000.110mb.com/trinity/index-5.html#21.

  1. 
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  jonathan dough

  1) Do the JWs still believe that the first resurrection of the 144,000 began in 1918 or did they change that?

  2) Do they still believe that Jesus is present, the parousia is upon us and that he 'returned' invisibly in 1914 or has that also changed?

  http://www.144000.110mb.com/trinity/index-5.html#21
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  124

  Lets Debate the Trinity

  by UnDisfellowshipped in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  come on everyone, let us reason on the trinity doctrine using the bible!.

  you know there has to be at least 3 big long trinity threads on here per month... so i figured i'd go ahead and start one for november.. the bible says that there is only one true god who is god by nature, the only god who deserves our worship and prayer.

  jesus taught that his father is god.

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  jonathan dough

  the trinity has never been proved, and CANNOT be proved from the Bible. Come, do your best. Only at me email.

  http://144000.110mb.com/trinity/index.html